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Daylight Savings Time is stupid.

You heard it here first.

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( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
pottertilly
Apr. 7th, 2003 09:30 am (UTC)
Feel very off myself too! Ugh!

Why don't we just pick a time and stay with it? Or even just move the time a half hour -- hm... maybe move it a half hour and just not change it again?
self
Apr. 7th, 2003 11:23 am (UTC)
time for a change
Timezones, I should add, are also stupid.

What we need is a measurement of time that remains accurate throughout the year. Like, say, using a sundial.

Failing that, we need the offsets to happen transparently. Start by syncing every timepiece to an atomic clock, and build in a GPS chip. Every five minutes, your clock changes by the tiniest fraction of a second based on your current position, and the earth's orbit around the sun.

...which would essentially make it accurate to the sundial.

Personally, I think we should approximate further. "Morning" happens when the sun comes out, and "Night Time" when it goes away. That's all we need, really.

Most living creatures feel no desire to coordinate their activities across great distances. They don't live by rigid constructs to facilitate and take advantage of each other's schedules. Those layers of complexity are foreign to them. As is the misery that results.

If these thumbs are opposable, then I oppose them.
seonsaint
Apr. 7th, 2003 12:47 pm (UTC)
Re: time for a change
I'm still wondering...

Why haven't we learned that, if we like gaining the hour from falling back, why not be arbitrary and have EVERY day start an hour later? People love having that 25 hour day in the fall... why not have it everyday?

Even better, if we do have to use time, why not make it the same, and have no time delays? Think about how much time we sat in class waiting for the kid next to us to figure out time.
mcw_jas
Apr. 7th, 2003 08:46 pm (UTC)
Just a correction.....
Remember, it's "Daylight Saving Time"... NOT "Daylight Savings Time"
(It's not a sale on Daylight Savings... you're just saving some daylight)
seonsaint
Apr. 7th, 2003 10:13 pm (UTC)
Re: Just a correction.....
And this makes the fact that we live with such idiocy better?
mcw_jas
Apr. 7th, 2003 10:30 pm (UTC)
Re: Just a correction.....
Now we need to travel back to when the calendar was created and blame early civilizations... Then, we get to blame the newer civilizations which adopted the ancient calendar systems... So, I am not arguing with you that the world is screwed up... I am just making sure you remember that that's how we (humans) are... From the beginning.

It doesn't look like there is any hope in sight (after all, some people still believe the only reason for leap years is that the year is divisible by 4... not because we screwed up the system and have to make up lost/gained time).
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 09:39 am (UTC)
Sundials. I'm tellin' ya.
So, let me get this straight... You've built a time machine, with all the potential that entails, and you're planning to use it to go back in time and shake your finger condescendingly at past civilizations?

Seems like kind of a waste, don't it?

"Tsk tsk, ancient dudes. Your calculations are laughable."
    Seriously, assigning blame is closer to the source of the problem than it is a solution. It puts responsibility on those ancient civilizations, who obviously aren't going to do anything about it now. Understanding the cause is nice, but only in so far as you want your solution to be more than a superficial workaround (like, say, leap year and daylight savings time). But it's for you, not them, to fix. We stand on the shoulders of imperfect giants.

    Also, don't mistake the lack of a known solution for evidence that a problem's unsolvable. A certain degree of failure is to be expected before success can be reached.

    I imagine Krista still has that copy of Ishmael you were supposed to get back for me and read. Do so, and we can talk about our relationship with history. 'til then, you're the least qualified person in this thread to discuss what you're saying.

We have better math than they did. We have better technology. When you get in your time machine and blame those who went before us, they're bound to point this out. And boy, will your face be red.
mcw_jas
Apr. 8th, 2003 09:50 am (UTC)
Re: Sundials. I'm tellin' ya.
You still don't get it, do you...

Evidence clearly is shown to indicate the all of the ancient civilizations WERE tampered with in one form or another (whether by an "alien" race, or someone from the future, who knows)... You need to catch up on some reading yourself if you are unaware of these...

Some examples include:
Descriptive accounts of situations occurring simultaneously in various parts of the world (which would be impossible)
"Angels" or other "floating beings" - all described in the same fashion throughout the world.

As far as blaming the early civilizations, that was a comment made to the comment before... I would actually rather go and visit the ancient civilizations as they had some technology that WE CAN'T DUPLICATE AT THIS TIME! Why is that?

Here are some sources for you to catch up on these various theories:
The Learning Channel
The Discovery Channel
A library
Some reference materials found either online or in compendiums.
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 10:03 am (UTC)
not playing.
That link was from two years ago. I've been telling you to read one book for at least this long, because not having read it diminishes our ability to have the conversations you want to have.

Two years, Jas.

You don't get to give me reading assignments until you fix that.
mcw_jas
Apr. 8th, 2003 10:22 am (UTC)
Three strikes and you are out
My idea to go back and change the past was no more foolish than your idea to change the way the WORLD keeps track of time.

Neither are going to happen.

Deal with it.
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 11:39 am (UTC)
Dealt with.
The world has changed how it keeps track of time, on several occasions. Why is it so outlandish to think we're still capable of that?

How many people do you suppose would vote to keep the old system in place, if a new system made their lives less complicated? I'm not saying my thoughts came anywhere close to accomplishing this, but how can you believe even for a second that a change like that is impossible?

This wasn't a competition to see who's idea was more practical. But if you're going to make it that, I should point out that yours was to go back and blame the past. Not change it.

I never used the word foolish. I never used the word unrealistic. Those words stunt creativity, which is something I avoid doing at all costs. But I do place constraints, because they lead to more constructive brainstorms. What I said was that assigning blame gets in the way of taking responsibility.

Why is this important? Because even without a time machine, that's what people do already.

They put all of their power into making themselves powerless.
seonsaint
Apr. 8th, 2003 10:46 pm (UTC)
The Book.
You really should read Ishmael, Jas. I mean if you do nothing else, do that much...

When self says that you can't have a meaningful discussion on the subjects you have an obvious interest in, he's telling the truth.

Something I like to tell people when I give them a copy is the following: "You've seen the Matrix, right? You know that question that bugs Neo? 'What is the Matrix?' Well, I know you've got a question just as large by the talks we've had. This book let's you see that question with clarity and realize that the answer makes Neo's discovery pale in comparison." Or something equivelant... Ishmael really should be read... honest... :)
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 09:00 am (UTC)
paving the way to better communications
Those of you who understood what I was saying, please take a step forward.

Don't mind the crunching sounds behind you - that's just everyone else being slowly run over by a bulldozer.
mcw_jas
Apr. 8th, 2003 09:30 am (UTC)
Re: paving the way to better communications
I was just correcting a grammatical error... I've seen/read that so many times in my life, and, in the past few days (not because of DST, but because the hardware clock on the Cobalt Raq I have wasn't synching... the software clock worked fine, but the hardware clock remained a constant 21 hours behind, no matter what... and upon reboot, who knows WHAT day it would show, but, when you reboot a linux system, the hardware clock is forced on the software clock, and all statistics and time-specific operations are screwed to hell....)

That's why I keep saying - we don't need time... Look at how many problems it causes!
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 09:54 am (UTC)
dynamic granularity
It's not a grammatical error.

Language is arbitrary. It's not so much a set of rules as it is the means to standardize communications. Meaning, majority rules. "Ketchup" is now considered to be the correct spelling of "Catsup." Why? Because people understand that. It's not about penalizing the ignorant. You just want to get ideas across.

That said, open a web browser and head to Google. Searching for "Daylight Savings Time" brings up about 149,000 results. "Daylight Saving Time" comes in at 111,000 results. Survey says? You're in the minority.

Let me be clear, this rule only applies to language, lest we vote Pi down to two significant digits...
mcw_jas
Apr. 8th, 2003 09:55 am (UTC)
Minority?!
Who the hell cares about the minority in this case? I was telling you what was RIGHT. If you DO NOT BELIEVE ME, GO TO THE SOURCE!

Would you like me to get out the good old U.S. law books? I can, if you want me to?
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 10:14 am (UTC)
Yes. Minority.
RIGHT is a moral distinction. What you meant to say is CORRECT, and that's subject to exceptions where language is concerned.

Unless you think the law books explicitly forbid adding an S (thus making it a moral distinction), there's no point in opening them.

Going to the source tells me "knight" has three syllables. The source wants us to make fools of ourselves. Can't be trusted.
mcw_jas
Apr. 8th, 2003 10:21 am (UTC)
Re: Yes. Minority.
Just because everyone drives faster than the posted speed limit DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT.

And that is WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.

You read WAY TO FAR INTO THIS.
pottertilly
Apr. 8th, 2003 10:30 am (UTC)
Re: Entering the ring
I meant to comment earlier, but I see many more comments have been posted. Anyway...

I've read Ishmael twice. The second time I read it was after Sept. 11, and that’s when it truly punched me in the stomach. self is right. Please take the time to read this book. If it has no effect on you, fine, but give it a chance.
self
Apr. 8th, 2003 11:56 am (UTC)
apples and oranges.
The speed limit example is a moral judgement. Driving faster than what others have deemed safe puts your life and others in jeopardy.

I understand what you were trying to say.

But for the third time, language is different.

The issue at hand is a question of accuracy, not morals. And language? It's an art, not a science. What we study in English class is merely a snapshot, falling constantly out of date.

Note the frustration and anger in your tone, and tell me again which of us is reading too much in?
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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